Is the Bell & Howell T10XL compatible with 64T?

[Sammy Reed]

Does anyone know if the Bell & Howell T10XL super-8 camera is compatible with the Ektachrome 64T film?

[Joerg Polzfusz]

Hi,

the camera is not listed in the Super8Wiki
http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Super_8_EKTACHROME_64T_motion_picture_film_exposed_in_old_cameras
or on "Mike Cameras"'s page
http://www.film.project-consultant.de/html/table__asa_-cameras.html

So you'll have to try the "Super 8 Cartridge Notch Ruler"
http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Super_8_Cartridge_Notch_Ruler

Good luck,
Jörg

[Sammy Reed]

I don't know what speeds my camera operates on.

[Joerg Polzfusz]

Hi,

since your camera is a very compact one from 1981, there's a 99% chance that it only handle nodges for 40 or 160 ASA Tungsten. To confirm this, you'll need to print out and use the ruler (s. prior posting).

Since your camera doesn't seem to have manual exposure or a manual correction of the auto-exposure, you've only got four options:
a) wait for the Super8-version of the Fuji Velvia 50 (announced for the next months by http://www.gkfilm.de/, http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/ and http://www.pro8mm.com/ ). This reversal film is a 50ASA one, but will work fine when treated as 40ASA.
b) http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/ is still selling the Kodachrome 40 in Super8 (under the name Wittnerchrome 40) (They're either splicing the Double-Super8-version or are splicing and perforating the 16mm/35mm-versions.)
c) http://www.kahlfilm.de/ is selling the "KAHL UT 18 Chrome" (50 ASA, but works fines as 40 ASA, too)
d) Last but not least: When your camera rates the e64t as 40 ASA (you can check this with the ruler), it still might give okay results. Even if this doesn't give good results, you can even out this flaw when doing a pull-processing. (But so far no lab offering e6-processing for Super8 is offering pull- or push-services. Hence you'll either have to wait or to process your film yourself at home :( )

When you haven't got a printer or problems with the ruler, you should try the forum's at filmshooting.com - maybe some of the gals/guys there can email you a scan of a manual for that camera (the T 10 XL and T 20 XL seem to share one manual):
http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

Jörg

[Sammy Reed]

Since your camera is a very compact one from 1981, there's a 99% chance that it only handle nodges for 40 or 160 ASA Tungsten. To confirm this, you'll need to print out and use the ruler (s. prior posting).
I'm sorry, call me a dummy, but I wouldn't know what the heck to do with that "ruler".

...no lab offering e6-processing for Super8 is offering pull- or push-services.

Dwayne's Photos ( http://www.dwaynesphoto.com/movies/html/order.html) offers push and pull processing for an extra $20.

[Joerg Polzfusz]

The ruler:

Its theoretical background: when you enter a super8-cartridge into the camera, the camera should automatically recognize the film's ASA-setting and whether it's a film balanced for tungsten or daylight. This is done by two "holes" (or "nodges") (on the right side of the ruler):

the one below the center "nodge" is for tungsten or not. Hence the camera has to check whether the nodge exists or not.
the one above the center "nodge" is more tricky: Its size tells the film's ASA, hence the camera has to measure the nodge's size in 0.1-inch-steps.


The reality:

Most cameras don't check for the existence of the tungsten-nodge or not - when the user engages the filter, it gets engaged in any case.
To check the size a camera should have several small pins or a stepped long trigger (see "Measuring a GAF 738"). Unfortunately most cams only have got one pin: When the pin is pressed, the cartridge is assumed to be 40ASA, when not (because the nodge is long enough) it's assumed to be 160ASA. But the pin's position differs from camera to camera: In most cameras the pin's located close to the 40ASA-"border", hence every cartridge with a smaller than 40ASA (=lower border closer than 0.8 Inches to the center) will be rated as 160ASA. Other cams have their pin at 0.4 inches = will rate everything with 160ASA and higher as 160ASA. And some other cams have this pin somewhere between those two positions.


In other words: print the ruler (watch the instructions otherwise the scale won't fit!!!), fold it, enter it into the camera instead of cartridge and check for the existence of pins or anything else that could be used to measure the size or existence of those two nodges.

Everything unclear? ;)

Jörg

[Sammy Reed]

Yesterday, I got a super-8 camera at the Goodwill. It's a Bentley BX-720, with 6 settings ranging from 2.8 to 16. Now I guess I shouldn't worry about getting an acceptable picture with this film if I experiment with the different settings, should I?

[Paul Ivester]

Sammy,

Sorry to disappoint you, but the Bently was the cheapest of the cheap of Super-8 cameras. There are plenty of very high quality cameras out there selling for very little, try to find a higher end model from a well known maker. Considering how much film and processing will cost you, why risk disappointment by using a camera that cost less than the roll of film. Of course, you don't have to spend that much, I got a very nice Canon for $2 last year.

[Sammy Reed]

Sammy,

Considering how much film and processing will cost you, why risk disappointment by using a camera that cost less than the roll of film.
Are you kiddin'? They took me for 35 bucks for this thing! Goodwill does seem to be selling stuff for higher prices lately. For example, this same store also has an old Commodore disk drive for $12!

[Sammy Reed]

...and on the subject of price of camera vs. price of film, I could buy 2 packs of 64T from Dwayne's Photo for less than I forked over for this camera! :eek:

[Paul Ivester]

Sorry to hear you paid so much for the camera, I guess I've had better luck in finding bargains. Actually, since the camera has an f stop adjust, I assume it doesn't have an auto exposure you would need to fool into thinking the film isn't ASA 40, so you could get accurate exposure using an external meter. set your meter using 18 FPS as about 1/30 sec, and 24 FPS is about 1/50 sec. I assume the camera has an internal type A filter that slides into postion, you would need to compensate your exposure when shooting in daylight.

[Joerg Polzfusz]

6 settings ranging from 2.8 to 16

Sorry to disappoint you, but the F-STOPs you're refering too have got nothing to do with the ASA-rating UNLESS you're going to use an external lightmeter and manual exposure!

There are only very, very few cameras that let you manually set the ASA-rating: Some Beaulieus, some Leicinas and some Lomos (maybe some "Zenit Quarz"-cameras, too)

When you want to have a camera that automatically works correctly with the e64t:
DON'T BUY this camera since it only has got a single pin for sensing the notch's size and hence only differs between 40 and 160 ASA (pin is found above the 0.6 Inches):
http://super8wiki.com/images/0/01/Minolta_XL-601_notches_1a.jpg

You'll need a camera that can sense several notch-sizes, e.g. this one (note the "stair-like" sensor above 0.7, 0.6 and 0.5 Inches):
http://super8wiki.com/images/thumb/2/26/GAF738notch.jpg/584px-GAF738notch.jpg

In most cases you'll just have to look in the camera's cartridge-chamber: If it says "64" for "Artificial Light" or "Tungsten", the camera can handle the e64t. (Make sure that "64" refers to ASA since some cameras are using DIN or GOST!):
http://super8wiki.com/images/thumb/b/b4/GAF738inner.jpg/628px-GAF738inner.jpg

[Sammy Reed]

I know this isn't a speed setting - it's one of those dials around the lens where you adjust the opening to shoot in darker or brighter places (sunlight vs. indoors, etc.) I thought if you adjusted that to shoot in brighter places (making the picture darker), it would compensate for higher-speed film.

[Joerg Polzfusz]

I know this isn't a speed setting - it's one of those dials around the lens where you adjust the opening to shoot in darker or brighter places (sunlight vs. indoors, etc.) I thought if you adjusted that to shoot in brighter places (making the picture darker), it would compensate for higher-speed film.

The idea is correct and might work when you've got one of those Bentleys with manual exposure-settings.

[Sammy Reed]

Before anyone replies to this, let me edit this to first & foremost say thanks to you, Joerg, for the encouragement on my Bentley!
Now, my Bell & Howell has an outdoor/indoor switch. Could this be a 40/160 switch? If so, would the outdoor (40) setting work with 64T?

[Sammy Reed]

Now, I'm noticing that when I switch to the outdoor setting of the B&H (and when it's in the "off" position as well), a little red lens filter slides in. Would that make 64T more usable with this camera?

Dang, I'm sorry for all these questions.

[Paul Ivester]

Sammy,

In the Indoor position, the filter is out of the light path, and the tungsten balanced film is exposed at its tungsten rating, such as 40 for K40 or 64 for E64. In the outdoor position, the type A filter is in place, and the exposure should be automatically compensated, shooting at 25 for K40 or 40 for E64. The pins shown in the photo above are supposed to set the ASA automatically, providing the camera is set up for all speeds. If your camera doesn't have a pin capable of sensing ASA64, it should be possible to get proper exposures if the meter sensor is not through-the-lens by shooting through a 1/2 stop neutral density filter.

[Steven Sigel]

I think I've got a couple of ELMO Sound (or silent - it will take either kind of cartridge) super 8 cameras in the basement somewhere. Don't recall the model, but if anyone is interested, email me and I'll have a look... (sts (at) sigel (dot) net)